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1985-04692-Minutes for Meeting January 30,1985 Recorded 3/26/198585- 4692 VOL 63 PAGE , 19 4 DESCHUTES COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS GEOTHERMAL HEARING - JANUARY 30, 1985 Chairman Tuttle called the meeting tor'°ct,,7jQ7 P.M. Commissioner Prante and Commissioner Maud 1i(rCirj,�, 3� ( �, :`also in attendance. Chairman Tuttle called for those who wished to testify to sign up at the sign up sheet on the podium. He outlined the purpose and the rules of the hearing, noting that it was a continuation of the hearing held January 9, 1985. The purpose of the hearing is to consider ordinances 85-001 and 85-002, amending the Comprehen- sive Plan and Zoning Ordinance to provide standards and criteria for geothermal facilities in Deschutes County. This hearing is to provide the opportunity for interested parties to make comments about those items that have been submitted into the record. When parties testify, they are to state what portion of the record their testimony relates to. This hearing is strictly for discussion or argument of the record only, no new testimony is to be taken. Chairman Tuttle also noted for the record that at 1:40 pm on January 29, 1985, he had answered a phone call from Stephen Thompson and at that time had clarified for Mr. Thompson the nature of the hearing. Chairman Tuttle did not believe that this constituted ex -party contact. Commissioner Prante indicated that Jim Powell of the Planning Commission had wanted to set up a meeting but they did not meet. Chairman Tuttle then opened the public hearing. He called forward John Andersen, Community Development Director, and asked him to describe the boundaries drawn on the map of Newberry, Crater in the proposed ordinance. Mr. Andersen came forward and submitted the formal record consisting of those items submitted by the January 23rd deadline. This included three videotapes, slide presentations and other information. Mr. Andersen then described the location of those boundaries which delineate areas of permitted and restricted exploration and development. Mr. Andersen described that changes made in the proposed ordin- ance since the last hearing. The first is the recommendation that the boundary be reduced from that recommended by the Energy Facilities Siting Council (EFSC) to the boundary seen on the map (displayed on the wall during the hearing). The boundary represented by a red line on the map is being recommended. The second change is is in Policy 10; it regards area of explora- tion and production and where exploration would be allowed but production prohibited. Mr. Andersen read aloud the change in the language of that portion of the ordinance. This correction would allow them to be consistent with the Forest Service regulations. 1 J VOL 63 PACE 335 Chairman Tuttle noted that they had scheduled a public viewing of the videotapes submitted into the record. No one appeared to view those tapes, and to the best of his knowledge the only party who has requested to view these has been LaPine Pumice Company. At this time Chairman Tuttle opened the hearing to comments from interested parties, limiting time to 45 minutes for each side. Myer Avedovech (315 NW Greenwood, Bend), Counsel for LaPine Pumice Co., came forward. He noted that two other people will be testifying on behalf of LaPine Pumice Co.: Bob Thomason of Ormat, and geologist Dave Brown. He stated that his clients favor the red line on the map amended by a yellow line which would allow exploration on his client's property. He stated that if they set the right criteria for exploration, all development within that line will not impact the area. He explained that exploration was necessary to determine the amount of potential any given site offers. Under Goal 5, one of the requirements is to determine what the potential is. He stated that the proposed ordinance prohibits that. He stated that this may well be in conflict with Goal 5. With reference to the exploration elem- ent's statement that exploration in the crater will create a negative impact on the tourism and recreation in the area, he felt that it was important to note that the primary use of the area with Paulina and East Lakes in the spring or summer is fishing. However, the other uses in the winter time is the use of the area by snowmobilers. It is important that if someone is going to criticize the potential noise level of something that sounds like a electric engine, he would suggest that the consider the noise level existing in the area with the current recreation- al uses. He is not sure that a little sound will detract from the recreation there. LaPine Pumice has discussed the possibil- ity of a science park. The testimony and evidence that has been submitted says that it will increase the recreation in the area rather than detract from it. He stated that the evidence to the contrary is circumstantial evidence, and he has supplied evidence by experts that negates evidence stating that there will be an adverse impact on tourism. He also noted that there have been some comments that people may be distracted if they put some new kind of development in there. He responded that there are a substantial number of trucks now coming out of there hauling pumice. If they were in the geothermal business, there would not be as much truck traffic. They can put the power lines on the existing power poles or they could bury the lines. He suggested requiring a reclamation plan similar to that required with surface mining. This would allow the opportunity for explora- tion. Mr. Avedovech also responded to a comment that this use would interfere with some eagles living in the area. One of the exhibits shows the location of the nest. They will not interfere 2 VOL 63 PAGE 336 with that as much because of the location. He felt that snowmo- bilers interfere more. Mr. Avedovech stated that with regard to a definition from LCDC on the statewide goals and guidelines, the proposed development is for intense recreational uses for the Newberry Crater which is the Forest Service's intent for the area also. He stated that Newberry Crater, when developed under the plans that are now in existence, will not be the Newberry Crater that exists today. He felt that their proposal would fit in with the recreational plan. He noted that the area was going to change, and be developed into a high intensity recreational area. He referred to a letter submitted by the Forest Service, dated January 9, and stated that he would like to clarify some points contained in that letter that are not accurate. First, LaPine Pumice received their patent in 1980 and not 1981. He referred to comments made that pipe would be above the ground and would be detrimental. One of the things that they would like to point out is that they have the opportunity for the county to be the forerunner to allow for the exploration and development of the hottest geothermal site in the US. He stated that this brings some national recognition for something that is not anyplace else. Technology is moving very fast in this field and the plants are not as big and ugly as they used to be. He stated that the testimony submitted by LaPine Pumice is valid testimony and an opportunity would be provided to stay in conformance with Goal 5. A project similar to the one they hope to submit will be one that will add to the recreational and tourism facilities with no negative impact on the area. He stated that the noise level can be almost eliminated by enclosing the engines used to generate the power. He stated that it would be less than the current noise level. They will not have any impact on the wildlife in the area. He stated that nothing can be shown that will be negative to the county. Mr. Avedovech is suggesting that this particular area is such that they should be allowed to explore. He then referred to various letters submitted as testimony. First, a letter dated Nov. 10, 1977, from the U. S. Department of the Interior, states that the area has been noted as a special interest area and designated as a registered national landmark. A letter dated Dec. 6, 1985 indicates that the pumice development at LaPine Pumice would be ideal for the pursuit of the study of geothermal development. A letter dated Jan. 22 to the Board of Commission- ers from Doyle states that Newberry Crater is critical for development for two reasons, the evidence submitted shows that an exception should be made to either boundary that the caldera of Newberry Crater should be accepted and the opportunity for exploration be allowed. David Brown, of Pinacle Geotechnical Services (310 SW 4th, Portland, OR), came forward. Pinacle Geotechnical is LaPine 3 v0L 63 PAGE 337 Pumice Co.'s technical consultant in this particular case. He has reviewed all of the written testimony and the videotapes and slides. He stated that he has never been involved in a process like this before. He understands that people have concerns but that people don't seem to believe what is being said when talking about the technical aspects of this. He stated that he was not aware that there was an endangered species of plant in the crater. He said that if the pumice fern was in there, the LaPine Pumice Co. will do whatever is necessary to protect it. He referred to a statement made that it takes 60 trucks to support a drilling machine. Six trucks are necessary to support a drilling machine. He suggested that may have been a misprint. Road 21 is the easement they have from the Forest Service into their land. With regard to the size of the drilling pad, he had spoken to a company in Mineapolis, MN, that is using a pad 281x36' for the drilling machine that drills to 14,000 feet. A company in Spokane can do the production wells in a space of 100' by 50'. There was a concern voiced about hydrogen sulphide which is a toxic gas produced during drilling in some areas. They have found that there is some hydrogen sulphide associated with Newberry Crater but the drilling method they use in the well controls that. They can use drilling fluid. He explained that the resource at Newberry Crater is a hot water resource, not a steam resource. They must include hydrogen sulphide abatement equipment on their drilling machine. There will be no venting of any hydrogen sulphide during drilling, test pumping, or operation. They will use a closed loop system which fits into the well through a heat exchanger and goes back in the well so that fluid never comes to the surface. The system has a built-in valve system which closes those off in the event of a equipment failure. With regard to the question of the eagles in the area, he stated that the nesting will be completed some time in July and they won't drill until August. There won't be any problems with noise disturbing the eagles. He stated that the springs in Newberry Crater are not springs. They are actually fumaroles or gas vents and the fluid is only heated lake water. They are not in any way connected to the central pumice cone so drilling could not dry up that hot spring. In response to Marshall Ganent, Oregon Department of Water Resources, he said that his institutional problems (no technical problems with the equipment) are site specific and due to problems within his organization, nothing to do with his well or technology. They are using the Ormat systems but the cooling systems are not comparable. They use a cooling pond which will not be acceptable at Newberry Crater. 4 VOL 63 033 Mr. Brown then contradicted some of the information submitted by Mark Delenger regarding the geysers area. He stated that the geysers are a bad place for the geothermal development, so that is a poor place to compare this to. In answer to the snowmobile issue, there is concern about road 21. They testified that they would not plow that road. He stated that they will use snowcats to go in and out of the site during periods of deep snow. They do not intend to do any kind of major operating on the site during the winter months. Road 21 definitely will not be plowed. He also pointed out that they can bury the power line all the way out of the crater. That is their plan at this point. Bob Thomason, Ormat Engineer, came forward. He showed some slides of units operating in Nevada and other slides of various geothermal facilities. He explained that these machines are made in Israel and purchased in modular form. With regard to the evidence presented by the opposition, he respects their feelings and thinks that this is a wonderful area. He stated that this plant can be put in properly with as little impact as possible. He understands it would take as much as three years before this is put in, and there will probably be even more advanced techno- logy then, offering less impact. Mr. Miller, owner of LaPine Pumice Co., stated that Dr. Hollis Dole's letter is very important. It states that when they drilled there they did not run in violation. They were shut down because they ran into problems with their well. Dr. Dole says that he considers this the ideal place to prove this resource. Mr. Miller stated that about 100 truckloads of pumice would go down that highway if they were to open this mine up fully. He said they didn't even need to put in the science park but they are willing to do that. The proposed site is three quarters of a mile from the East Lake campground, one mile to the next camp- ground and can't be heard from there. He stated that they could bury this plant or have it totally enclosed. He thought they had the hottest geothermal area in the US. With regard to drilling in at an angle, he stated that when they drill at an angle, there is the possiblity of loss of tools or the ground can cave in. He stated that no one would drill on this type of area on angle drilling, if they want to drill for geothermal they need to go straight down. He noted that there have been three wells drilled in there on a test basis no one complained. Chairman Tuttle then called for comments in favor of the proposed ordinance. Nancy Zirkle, County Planning Commissioner, came forward. She said that the new and improved best technology doesn't work and cited the Winchester Dam as an example. She stated that that will be relived here because they have testimony about state of the art facilities. With regard to drilling 9 VOL 63 FuE 339 exploration versus production, she did not feel that the would invest in exploration without wanting to go into production. Based on the Planning Commission record, she urged the Board to understand the support of the Planning Commission for geothermal development in the proper area. She noted that there are bene- fits to Miller as a private citizen. She said that there was public benefit in recreation and tourism. She mentioned Miller trying to sell has land to the Forest Service similar to the sale at Rock Mesa. she urged the Board to uphold the carefully drafted plan from the Planning Commission. Sharon Gambrail, 2296 Vintage Lane, Bend, came forward. She said that they covered everything that she planned on saying. She supports the adoption of the ordinances. Bob Robinson, Planning Commission member (P. O. Box 6929, Bend, Oregon 97708), came forward. He stated that the Planning Commission has spent about 30 hours attempting to balance the resources that they are dealing with. They do not wish to see any geothermal development or exploration in that area. Current- ly, there has been plenty of exploration going on outside the crater. He stated that a number of major oil companies have strong interest in this area. By leaving many acres open to geothermal development they are encouraging development in the county. They have heard a lot of talk about finding the hottest site. He stated that they are mining that. He stated that there are contingency plans to build condos. Mr. Robinson stated that Mr. Miller has publicly stated that he would like to sell the property while the Forest Service is willing to buy it. He stated that this was similar to the situation with Rock Mesa. He asked that the Commission not allow any exploration in the area. Neil Miller, Redmond Oregon, a well -driller employed by Buckner Well Drilling, came forward. He is in opposition to the ordin- ance, but did not get a chance to speak earlier in the hearing. He stated that his company had drilled the well for Sandia Labs. In all of this testimony presented, he referred to the numerous mentions of potential in the area. He stated that they know the potential is there, and he felt that they must go after that. He stated that it is not financially feasible to angle in. They can drill 4,000 feet with one truck -mounted rig. He stated that a smaller rig could also come in and would drill adequately. He said that the sound level was minimal. He was also up there while the rig was running on the Sandia well and he could not hear it from the obsidian flow. He explained that there will be a closed loop system so they don't need to worry about air quality. The hydrogen sulphide will shut off the steam so they will be motivated to control it. He doesn't want to see a potential source completely shut down. There has only been one blowout in the US in the last ten years and that was because of improper drilling practices. He stated that many agencies exiet to make sure that this plant is safe. He stated that R VOL 63 PAGE 340 systems are relatively low pressure with hot water resources. With the closed loop system they would not dry up the springs. He noted a reference to the crater being a national landmark. He sees nothing wrong with the drilling that has been done that has adversely affected that. The sites are left cleaner than when they went in. No trees have been taken out, and all existing roads are were not modified to accomodate the operation. He stated that fears of what may happen are unfounded. They have the technology. He stated that the potential resource has been found within the core of the area. There were no complaints or noise problems with past drilling projects. He stated that the Sandia well could have been used for a production well. He explained that the drill pad size could be three to five acres or the size of the hearing room. He stated that there is proof that this resource is there-- they have the heat there. Without drilling they don't know if it is at that particular site. He stated that recreation can be done without, but heat they have to have. Stephen Thompson, Three Creeks Lake Rd., Sisters, came forward. He stated that the issue that he would like to address is the local and regional economy emphasizing tourism. He stated that he believes that Newberry Crater holds the key to Central Oregon's economic future. He stated that there is a serious effort being organized to propose Newberry Crater as a national park. That proposal is not yet ready, but he feels somewhat forced to bring it up now because of the proposed use. Oregon has but a single national park. It is the only state to have only one national park. He noted that people plan their summer recreational trips based on national parks and national monu- ments. He discussed some of the features of national parks, and stated that Newberry Crater has those features. He then discussed the economic advantages of a national park for our area. He felt that by not allowing this geothermal development in the core area, they could take the single most important step to Central Oregon's economic future. He recommended holding the line at the proposed EFSC boundary. He felt that the potential with a national park was enormous. He explained that his comments relate to the Planning Commission deliberations, which were submitted to the record at the December 12 hearing. This material was included in those deliberations. Chairman Tuttle then closed the hearing to allow questions from the Board to those who testified. There was a 10 minute break from 8:40 to 8:50 pm. Commissioner Prante asked Mr. Brown about the size of the drilling pad. Mr. Brown responded that multiple wells can be drilled from one pad. They need a pad aproximately 100' x 50' for production. They estimate four to five production wells will be necessary to run the 10 megawatt plant. They would establish 7 four to five temporary well replanted. With regard to cost about $3,000 per well. $500,000. VOL 63 PACE 341 pads that will be later regraded and cost estimates, shallow test wells A deeper production well costs about Commissioner Prante then asked Neil Miller about roads. He responded that they used an 8.5' right of way and edged the drill rig through the trees. He stated that the well drilled to get the heat for Sandia Labs could have been used just as it was. At 1300 feet deep it was 305 degrees. This well was located approx- imately 1/4 mile from the obsidian flow. Commissioner Prante then asked Stephen Thompson who the individ- uals are who are organizing the national park effort. Mr. Thompson responded that a number of individuals were, but did not name anyone. Commissioner Prante then asked Mr. Bob Robinson about this not being a full scale mining operation. Mr. Robinson responded that they can mine up to 2500 cubic yards a day. This is the equiva- lent of 25 railroad cars. Commissioner Prante then asked about the number of trucks needed for well drilling, noting the Forest Service referred to 60 trucks. Neil Miller responded that depends upon the depth and the design of the hole as well as the tests to be conducted on the hole once it's been drilled. He stated that it would be impossible to give a definite number unless they had a design of a hole right in front of them. They have used from six to 60, depending on the design of the drilling. He noted that there has been considerable conversation about the size of the pads. Commissioner Prante noted that to drill a well of this kind they use a substance called mud. She asked how much mud is used, how it is stored, and what is done with it when it comes back up. Neil Miller responded that it is stored in a self-contained tank next to the drilling machine, and that is used to increase the weight of the fluid and controls the inside of the drill bore. When the mud is taken out of the well, they put in a concrete seal. A septic tank hauler is used to take the mud out of the area. While the well is being drilled the mud will be there in certain quantities. There are rules for handling it and upwards of 10,000 to 20,000 gallons of fluid is permitted on site at a time. They contained all the mud on one tank that was hauled on the back of a 22 foot flatbed for the Sandia project. It is brought in bagged and left on the site. It takes 20 sacks to make 4,000 gallons to start. He stated that the tank must be kept full and fluid in the hole as it is being drilled. As much as 50,000 gallons is permitted in the hole but only 5,000 in the tank. Commissioner Maudlin asked about a well that is explored then ' VOL 63 PAGE 342 developed and the water comes up that heats the freon, that well will soon fill in and have to be redrilled. Neil Miller responded that the water they had was remarkably clear at the Sandia well. If it has high mineral content then it can plug up the well, but exit treatment can be used. They would drill multiple wells in different aquifers and complete them at dif- ferent levels tapping different aquifers. He stated that if they keep the pressure up in the well it keeps the well bore clean. Commissioner Prante asked Mr. Brown the limits on production. He responded that they can't go below 10 megawatts and be economic- ally feasible. They will have a 10 megawatt plant and no bigger. 25 modules are possible. He stated that one of the reasons they were interested was under the BPA program. They believe there will be 25 megawatt cap on that site. The BPA options process requires that you have to show at least 10 megawatts and up to 100 megawatts within a site. This could be the entire Newberry Crater area. He stated that they could not comply with this on a 160 acre site for the 100 megawatt requirement. They do have another market and they are not looking specifically at BPA. They will go after the BPA option but they have other options. He said they don't have to be able to develop the entire 100 metgawatts on that site. Commissioner Maudlin asked about higher temperature resources, noting that the Sandia well was 305 degrees at 1300 feet. He asked about temperatures in excess of 500 degrees and if there was that potential. Neil Miller responded that the US Geothermal well was 520 degrees. They can still run a binary machine at those temps, but it must be changed, going to bromo carbons or hydro carbons rather than freon. The working fluid is changed. Each of the machines are fine tuned to the individual resources. Chairman Tuttle stated that at this point it would be appropriate to move away from the discussion of technical issues to discuss- ion of the Goal 5 analysis: how the area inside of Newberry Crater relates to the administrative rule and the Goal 5 analy- sis. Elliot Allen responded by referring to the draft findings. He stated that this is addressed beginning with paragraph 8 of the findings. This follows the Goal five process as stipulated in the Oregon Administrative Rules. An inventory was conducted of the entire county and resource area were delineated to include a large area surrounding Newberry volcano. The next step was to identify conflicting uses which were in the particular resource area. Those included a variety of natural resource values as well as recreation, which is Goal 7. Having identified those other uses as conflicting with geothermal development then they considered the consequences of these conflicts. This resulted in a determination that on the one hand geothermal represented an 9 industrialization of the resource area. On the other hand were the environmental and natural values in the caldera already which is summarized in paragraph 10 and 11 of the findings. Environ- mental, social, economic, and energy are the consequences they must evaluate. They felt that in considering the benefits accruing from geothermal development, the scales tip toward protecting the conflicting uses. The last step of the Oregon Administrative Rule requires that they develop a program to protect these. They can either allow the use in question or protect the conflicting use to the main use in question or they can allow both to occur to a certain extent by limiting the conflicts. The Planning Commission chose this option and made their recommendation to the Board. They recommend that the two should be allowed to exist within the resource area with certain limitations. This excludes geothermal development from 40 of the resource area. 96% remains open for development and they hope that it will be developed and bring income to the county. Chairman Tuttle stated that these two ordinances refer to a wide variety of issues and not just Newberry Crater. He felt that it is essential that the red line on the map and be incor- porated as well as some minor alterations, including the scenic corridor to the west. MOTION: MAUDLIN moved to have the first reading of the ordin- ance tonight 85-001 by title only. PRANTE: Second. VOTE: UNANIMOUS APPROVAL. Chairman Tuttle so read. MOTION: MAUDLIN moved the first reading of Ordinance 85-002 by title only. PRANTE: Second. At this time Commissioner Maudlin read aloud written testimony submitted by Phil Chase. VOTE: UNANIMOUS APPROVAL. Chairman Tuttle so read. He then announced that the second reading will be held on February 13 at the regular Commission meeting. Beg no further business, the meeting adjouned at 9:35 p.m. CHUTES COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS LAURENCE TU LE LO S BRISTOW PRANT� DICK MAUDLIN Chairman Commissioner Commissioner /ss 10