2017-21-Minutes for Meeting May 07,1982 Recorded 2/23/2017DESCHUTES COUNTY OFFICIAL RECORDS C} 201721
NANCY BLANKENSHIP, COUNTY CLERK J LV L
COMMISSIONERS' JOURNAL 02/23/2017 09:37:12 AM
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Deschutes County Board of Commissioners
Bend, Oregon
DESCHUTES COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
Audio Cassette Recording Titled: Home Rule Debate, Bend Chamber of
Commerce Forum
May 7, 1982, 11:15 AM - 1:30 PM
A meeting of the Bend Chamber of Commerce was held on May 7, 1982, with a
discussion about proposed County Home Rule as the main topic of the Chamber
Forum luncheon. Board of Commissioners present were Albert Young, Robert
Paulsen, and Clay Shepard; other County representatives and Chamber members
and guests.
The moderator of the meeting explained the topic of the debate. Fred Boyle of
COCC will be debating with Abe Young, County Commissioner since 1973. Each
speaker will be given five minutes to state their positions, and then granted three
minutes for rebuttal. After that time, the meeting will be opened up for
questions and answers. The speakers are well known. Fred Boyle will speak in
favor of the charter. He is the president of COCC. Abe Young is a County
Commissioner and will speak against the charter.
Transcription of Audio Recording of a Chamber Forum regarding Home Rule Page 1 of 10
The proposed Home Rule is on the May 18 ballot. Home Rule would mean seven
part-time Commissioners that would be nominated and elected from districts.
These would be non-partisan positions.
Initially Mr. Young will complete his term, so there would be eight Commissioners
for approximately two years. The districts would be formed out of the 49
precincts and the current Commissioners would be a part of doing this. They
would be charged with setting up the seven districts, and there would be one
vote per person. The same Ordinance provisions as now exist will be in place,
with a full-time administrator hired by the Commissioners. The Sheriff and
Assessor would remain elected positions. The Clerk, Treasurer and Surveyor
would be appointed.
There is a Budget Committee, as there is now, but there would be a budget as
well as a capitalization program required. This would include projections and
capital asset inventories. There would also be a charter review, beginning in 1985
and continuing every four years thereafter, by a citizen review committee to
decide if changes are needed in the charter. The charter does not change the
existing taxing process, which would still be subject to a vote of the public.
Fred Boyle said he represents only himself; he does not intend to say anything
that can be construed to be derogatory towards any County employee or official;
and if the charter does not pass, he will support whoever is elected. He is in favor
of the charter and recommends it.
Good things have been accomplished by the present form of government. The
issue revolves around the fact of having just three Commissioners and the
problems that can evolve out of that small number. It means that two people
who can agree run the affairs of the entire County. This means that in unusual
circumstances, the County can in fact be manipulated by two people. All it takes
is the election of one person to change the total direction of the County. He feels
that there is too much danger of meddling and personal politics.
Transcription of Audio Recording of a Chamber Forum regarding Home Rule Page 2 of 10
There is historical evidence. The Romans tried the three member approach. This
failed. Lessons of history show that this contributed to the decline of the
republican form of government. Most will remember the Russian group through
the United Nations, which doesn't operate all that well now anyway. People, not
structures, make government work.
How much better it would be to carefully design a structure that would provide a
broader form of representation to the people of the County; a set of safeguards
to protect citizen rights; and a set of procedures which would enhance County
government.
He feels that this is all about a better structure. They of course have to elect good
people. Two citizen groups worked on this charter. One was assigned to write it,
and another to review different forms of government. After months of work,
both committees basically came to the same place and agreed that the charter is
the best approach. They worked independently but came up with a similar
recommendation. Any other committee of ten people selected at random from
the Chamber group would have come up with the same conclusions.
As it stands in its present form, the charter will cost the taxpayers Tess money.
They knew they could not present a charter that cost more money, as it would
never pass. What happens from here depends on the voters.
The charter provides for a more representative form of government. Seven
Commissioners would be elected from zones in the County. Citizens will have a
chance to represent others in their area. This gives citizens a great chance to
know who they are electing. This is essential to democratic government. It will
give the people more pride and interest in the County.
Commissioners would be part-time. He sees advantages to this. Duties would be
primarily making policy rather than handling the day to day operations. In his
review of operations, it is his opinion that this needs to happen. He sees many
competent and dedicated people working for the County to handle the daily
work. They do need people working on policy, however.
Transcription of Audio Recording of a Chamber Forum regarding Home Rule Page 3 of 10
Commissioner Abe Young then spoke. Charter government or home rule —
neither is better than the people running it. If not run properly, it makes more
sense to change the people and not the form of government. Home rule is a
misnomer.
Those in favor of it will infer that you have a home rule charter that is no longer
under the control of the State. This is wrong. This has been conclusively rejected
by the State Supreme Court, which has held that home rule amendments granted
preeminence to a local political organization; but the legislature remains
preeminent in matters of substantive law. This ruling was made as recently as
January 15, 1982 and confirmed January 25, 1982.
Under the proposed charter, the County would still be under the control of the
State in many functions such as local budget law and so on. The charter says in
Section 1.1 that the County continues to be an agency of the State. All this allows
you to do is determine how to organize.
Part-time, token -paid Commissioners would eliminate a Targe segment of the
population from the opportunity of becoming a Commissioner, because they
could not afford or take the time off to properly do the job. An Administrator
would give you one-person rule. The Commissioners would have no knowledge of
the day to day operations of the County, would come in once or twice a month
and would be told only what the Administrator wants them to hear.
The proposed charter would give each person one Commissioner to represent
them, part-time. Under the present system, each person is represented by three
Commissioners who maintain regular office hours. Where would you find a part-
time Commissioner if you wanted to meet with one? How long will this person
tolerate being interrupted in his business or personal life regarding County
business that they are not getting paid for? You don't get anything if you don't
pay anything.
Transcription of Audio Recording of a Chamber Forum regarding Home Rule Page 4 of 10
When you have part-time Commissioners who need to earn a living at a regular
job or business, the problem of a conflict of interest arises as well. They may act
to protect their own source of income. A full-time, paid Commissioner needs to
only concern himself with the job he was elected to do.
If charter government is so great, why is it that in the over twenty years it has
been available, only seven counties have used it. And one county, Josephine, now
has it on the ballot for repeal. The Chairman of the Board there said that the
same people who put it in are trying to repeal it now, because it doesn't work.
Proponents want to hire professionals to do the job. You can hire a turkey as well
as elect one. It is easier to get rid of the ones you elect.
You are being told that there will be no taxes or charges will be imposed. He can
find nowhere in the charter that this is spelled out. Ordinances can be changed
and this charter gives the Commissioners that authority.
Regarding limiting terms to two, it does not make sense. This is like an employer
firing a good employee just because he has been there for eight years. This does
not make sense.
He asked that the public vote no on the charter for these reasons.
Mr. Boyle offered rebuttal. He said that any ordinance adopted by the Board that
imposes or exempting taxation shall receive the approval of the voters before
taking effect. They can't impose taxes without a public vote, per the charter.
He did not talk to the person in the other county, but did talk people from Hood
River, Lane and Washington counties. The one thing about the charter is that it is
a step in the right direction, and provides for opportunities to amend the charter
if something isn't working right.
The cost of County government would probably be cheaper. The charter provides
for one man rule — a County executive who is responsible to the Board of
Commissioners. The Board should be in a policy position.
Transcription of Audio Recording of a Chamber Forum regarding Home Rule Page 5 of 10
The real question comes back to the citizens. Citizens are capable of designing a
government structure that will serve and be responsible. He feels that the people
in the County are capable of this.
He has a problem with something Mr. Young said — that if you don't pay people
for something, you don't get anything. That speaks against every volunteer
citizen group that works on behalf of government or any other agency. That kind
of statement is destructive to the democratic process.
He thinks a great deal of Mr. Young and knows he is very honest. They will remain
friends regardless.
Mr. Young offered rebuttal. He said this will not be cheaper government. Lane
County and Washington County got home rule twenty years ago. During the time
since then, the cost of County government in Lane County has increased 684%
and in Washington County has increased 701%, compared to Deschutes that
increased less than half of that, in spite of the increased population. The Board of
Commissioner budget for Josephine County, after two years of home rules, went
from $124,000 to $340,000. This is due to bureaucracy. That is what they are
trying to create here.
Josephine County has 528 employees while Deschutes County has 281. Josephine
County has less population, however. The ratio in Deschutes County of
employees to the public is 4.6. In Josephine it is 8.6. Home rule won't be
cheaper.
The moderator opened up the meeting to questions.
Question: This group is interested in economic development. He asked how this
has been encouraged or hampered by the charter governments.
Mr. Young said Lane and Benton both have home rule, and have been preventing
development in their areas. One business was held up for seven years so went to
North Carolina where they employ 5,000 people. People who are running the
government make the difference. If an Administrator does all of this, the
Commissioners don't know what is going on.
Transcription of Audio Recording of a Chamber Forum regarding Home Rule Page 6 of 10
Mr. Boyle said he has not followed this issue with other counties, but does know
about other states. Most southern states have some kind of home rule.
He does not think economic development efforts are directly connected to the
government. It reflects what the people of the area want and whether the right
policies have been established. He does not think you can draw this kind of
conclusion.
Question: Do you foresee any benefit for COCC if this passes?
Mr. Boyle replied that this isn't the way the law works here.
Question: Does the charter state how often they need to meet and for how long?
Mr. Young said the charter does not spell this out. It leaves it up to the
Commissioners to decide when they want to make themselves available to the
public.
Mr. Boyle disagreed, and said that the charter specifically says that they shall
meet twice a month, and more if they choose. The pay would be $150 a month,
with $50 more for the Chairman.
Question: The subject of conflict of interest is a concern. He would like to hear if
there are safeguards against this.
Mr. Young stated that you can't serve to masters. The person who needs a job to
live may have to look out for that particular business or job that could conflict. It
has happened with the cities. Often they have to declare a conflict of interest. A
vote could be made to protect their personal interests.
Mr. Boyle said that he realizes there is a possibility of a conflict of interest. The
law states that you have to say if there might be. A major objection is having just
three Commissioners. A swing of just one person can cause a major change to
how things are run. It only takes two. It would be much more difficult to
influence seven people in a vote. People need to keep in mind where money
comes from to support different candidates.
Transcription of Audio Recording of a Chamber Forum regarding Home Rule Page 7 of 10
Question: Would it not make more sense to hire people who are trained for the
job, rather that elect them based on a party.
Mr. Young said that he sees no problem with this. When someone comes in as
Commissioner, there is no experience to handle most of it. They have to learn a
lot. People want to vote on what happens with their tax money. He wants to
vote on who keeps records of deeds and other important documents.
Mr. Boyle asked if people know that every County department has its own
purchasing procedures. There are opportunities there for problems and savings.
Most agencies have central purchasing. This is a waste of money. The system
isn't there to make the funds spent wisely.
Mr. Young said this is not the question asked. Mr. Boyle stated that any good
Administrator would not let happen. Mr. Young said they are combining some
things already. It takes time. Each department has different needs and forms.
Most departments need different kinds of equipment. It is very complicated to
have general purchasing when the needs of departments are different.
Question: He understands that the charter would be a government similar to that
of the college, with volunteer directors. How hard is it to get qualified people for
this?
Mr. Young said there are exceptions. Mr. Boyle stated that a part-time director is
common in most school districts.
Question: The National Association of Counties says that the most efficient form
of government is the charter rule. He wonders why there is this trend.
Mr. Young replied that to prosper, you have to expand. Some counties maybe like
this. But it is difficult for business in Oregon.
Question: Do you think any group can handle County business in two meetings a
month? That would be about enough time just to sign things. If it is hard for
three people to agree, it won't be any easier with seven.
Transcription of Audio Recording of a Chamber Forum regarding Home Rule Page 8 of 10
Mr. Young stated that they now meet two days a week, with a long agenda each
time. The not getting along part is a bunch of baloney. It makes good press.
He got all the minutes out for the month of August 1980, and there were 64
motions on the floor. He voted no on two, Bob Paulsen voted no on one and
abstained on one, and Clay Shepard voted yes on all of them. He doesn't see a
big problem. The issue is, no one attends the meetings. But there are headlines if
someone votes no.
Mr. Boyle said he gets that question himself. County government is complicated
and some issues are controversial. That is part of life. The charter form means
you need to have good staff and preparation work, and a different approach.
Question: It seems difficult for seven people to have discussions and get business
accomplished in just two meetings.
Mr. Boyle replied that he has a lot of faith in people and the country. They had
people from all walks of life get together to come up with the charter. There has
to be much better staff work. Corporations and governments do this all the time.
Question: Can people be taxed without a vote?
Mr. Young responded that this was copied from the ORS without proper
punctuation. This might be interpreted the wrong way. If the Attorney General
makes a decision, that is acceptable.
Question: What is better, three or seven Commissioners to represent the people?
Mr. Young said that they have a good system now.
Mr. Boyle stated that one difficulty is that people on the extremes of the district
know very little about the other areas. They are talking about representation.
Most people don't know much about the candidates now. If the person was local,
people would be more involved. You have to adopt home rule to have more than
three.
Mr. Young said that Multnomah and Washington have seven part-time. The
others have three paid Commissioners under home rule.
Transcription of Audio Recording of a Chamber Forum regarding Home Rule Page 9 of 10
Question: Can any of the other counties levy taxes without a vote?
Mr. Young said none of them as far as he knows. Someone from the audience
said that Lane County's charter allows them to adopt a sales tax for some things,
and a gas tax. They can't affect property taxes.
Mr. Boyle said that the committee did not intend the charter to allow this.
At this time the debate ended.
I certify that the above is a true and accurate record of a meeting, as reproduced from a
cassette tape identified as Minutes of Bend Chamber of Commerce Forum regarding the Home
Rule Debate, including the Deschutes County Board of Commissioners, held on May 7, 1982.
This record was completed subsequent to the presiding Deschutes County Board of
Commissioners' tenure.
Bonnie Baker
For the Board of County Commissioners
Transcription of Audio Recording of a Chamber Forum regarding Home Rule Page 10 of
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